The "second death" what exactly is it?

[Texas Son]

It is amazing to me, since I have recently come to accept UR, how Scripture begins making much more sense. One of the questions I have is about the "second death". Here is what I think I know and I am open for correction.

Christ's death and atonement was for all mankind. Though we were yet enemies He reconciled us to God. His Blood and death on our behalf is what reconciles us to God. However... unless we go through Roman's 6, meaning enter into His death, burial and resurrection through our believing and faith, we are not in Him, meaning raised up with Him (abide in Me and I abide in you).

Those who do not believe or those who die without receiving Him will enter into the second death. As I am understanding it, since they did not receive Him, although they were reconciled with God already, they are not yet raised up with Him. I believe this is where the Lake of Fire enters in the picture as a purifying agent of God's all consuming love. Am I at least on the right track? We who believe have no part in the second death because we are already raised up with Him?


TS

[Tony N]

Dear Texas Son
Thanks for your post.
Concerning the reconciliation please note the verses below:

Col 1:20-21  and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens."  (21)  And you, being once estranged and enemies in comprehension, by wicked acts, yet now He reconciles"

Please note that the "you" is not all mankind but is the Colossian believers. The believers are now reconciled. The rest of the universe will be reconciled in the future.

Reconciliation is when two parties come together in peace. We know that the world is still at enmity to God as are the evil spirit beings. So in the future there will be a two sided peace between God and all at enmity to God.

[Taffy]

Hi Texas Son and Welcome :icon_flower:

You may find there are a  few different veiws on the LOF, But ultimately its purpose is to give life to all.

For mine, I see it from the moment we ate from the Tree of G and E , we died.,that being the first death , Death of The Body and Soul , , the death of death comes through His life in us as you mentioned in Roman 6, Ultimately all go through the Lake of Fire( Christ), those in Him having experienced It now by being Raised in HIM, have No need to experience this again....

The LOF is very much a NOW experience as well as for those in the future.

Cue WillieH. :icon_flower:

[Zeek]

Hi Texas Son and Welcome :icon_flower:

You may find there are a  few different veiws on the LOF, But ultimately its purpose is to give life to all.

For mine, I see it from the moment we ate from the Tree of G and E , we died.,that being the first death , Death of The Body and Soul , , the death of death comes through His life in us as you mentioned in Roman 6, Ultimately all go through the Lake of Fire( Christ), those in Him having experienced It now by being Raised in HIM, have No need to experience this again....

The LOF is very much a NOW experience as well as for those in the future.

Cue WillieH. :icon_flower:

Hi T,

I am interested in how you perceive these verses,  since u believe "all go through LOF/second death"?

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Jn 5:16  If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


Blessings my friend.  Hope all is well with the healing.

Z

[Zeek]

2Co 5:14  For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:


to me this is first death,

what we do from their, "believe" or "turn back" determines second death. 

2Co 5:15  And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.


those who live "unto him", "believe", shall not die, shall not commit the "sin unto death/second death", shall not have to face the fire

Heb 12:25  See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Heb 12:22  But ye(believers) are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

not unto

Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire.

[Taffy]

Hi Texas Son and Welcome :icon_flower:

You may find there are a  few different veiws on the LOF, But ultimately its purpose is to give life to all.

For mine, I see it from the moment we ate from the Tree of G and E , we died.,that being the first death , Death of The Body and Soul , , the death of death comes through His life in us as you mentioned in Roman 6, Ultimately all go through the Lake of Fire( Christ), those in Him having experienced It now by being Raised in HIM, have No need to experience this again....

The LOF is very much a NOW experience as well as for those in the future.

Cue WillieH. :icon_flower:

Hi T,

I am interested in how you perceive these verses,  since u believe "all go through LOF/second death"?

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Jn 5:16  If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


Blessings my friend.  Hope all is well with the healing.

Z

Hey Zeek How ya doing bud..always good to hear from you :icon_flower:

for the first Zeek,, the lake is the death of death its self, in that which prevents us to see Life.

The death we all have is that of the soul ( heart and Mind) , the enmity which was ,as those who Now believe see Life and No longer know death, so will never DIE, as we KNOW who LIFE IS.

1John,

bro ive never been able to get my head around this, so if you have something to share.id like to hear it
:icon_flower:

[Texas Son]

2Co 5:14  For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:


to me this is first death,

what we do from their, "believe" or "turn back" determines second death. 

2Co 5:15  And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.


those who live "unto him", "believe", shall not die, shall not commit the "sin unto death/second death", shall not have to face the fire

So we have all died in Him, but are we all raised up with Him? If we are in Christ, we become a new creature (II Corinthians 5:17). Yet not all are new creatures.

I guess what I'm still struggling with is that in I Corinthians 15:22 it says "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."

So which came first, and what state are we and the rest currently in? Are we (all) dead in Christ but yet made alive? Or are we who were made alive (spiritually) being put to death by the crucifying of our flesh?

Thanks,
TS

[Nathan]

I think the deaths pertain to differnent things.  There is the spiritually dead who live according to their flesh . . .and in the end, experience the lake of fire to kill or purge that flesh from the control of their dorment spirit (God's nature in all of us is spirit).  So when we are born in the flesh through Adam, we are alive in flesh, but dead in spirit.  As Jesus stated to the disciple that used the excuse to bury his parents for not following Christ . . "Let the dead bury the dead".  You have spiritually dead burying physically dead.

So if you live this life apart from Christ, you are spiritually dead already.  As Taf mentioned, the lake of fire then brings death to that spiritual deadness in you . . .which means it causes a resurrection of your spirit within . . .as death in you is dead.  Life brings death to death.

Those that do have the honor and priviledge to accept Christ no longer are dead spiritually, but yet, they still die, it's just "carnally" that they die.  Being alive in Christ and dead to carnality isn't easy either.  There are all kinds of carnal things around us trying to jump start that which we've already given over to Christ.  There is still a pulling power from without, but greater is he that is within.

This isn't a black and white question that can be answered in such manner.  There are really three deaths in the mix.  Physical death, carnal death and spiritual death.  When you can dicipher between the three, you can also see which one fits where in Scripture

[Shadowland]

I agree with Nathan.

[Tony N]

I agree with Nathan.

I disagree with Nathan.  :happygrin:

[Texas Son]

I think the deaths pertain to differnent things.  There is the spiritually dead who live according to their flesh . . .and in the end, experience the lake of fire to kill or purge that flesh from the control of their dorment spirit (God's nature in all of us is spirit).  So when we are born in the flesh through Adam, we are alive in flesh, but dead in spirit.  As Jesus stated to the disciple that used the excuse to bury his parents for not following Christ . . "Let the dead bury the dead".  You have spiritually dead burying physically dead.

So if you live this life apart from Christ, you are spiritually dead already.  As Taf mentioned, the lake of fire then brings death to that spiritual deadness in you . . .which means it causes a resurrection of your spirit within . . .as death in you is dead.  Life brings death to death.

Those that do have the honor and priviledge to accept Christ no longer are dead spiritually, but yet, they still die, it's just "carnally" that they die.  Being alive in Christ and dead to carnality isn't easy either.  There are all kinds of carnal things around us trying to jump start that which we've already given over to Christ.  There is still a pulling power from without, but greater is he that is within.

This isn't a black and white question that can be answered in such manner.  There are really three deaths in the mix.  Physical death, carnal death and spiritual death.  When you can dicipher between the three, you can also see which one fits where in Scripture

I have to disagree to an extent. Have we truly ever been "spiritually dead"? Maybe "spiritually separated" but not dead. A quick concordance check of the O.T. shows the spirit of man active.

Exodus 35:21
    Everyone whose heart stirred him and everyone whose spirit moved him came {and} brought the LORD'S contribution for the work of the tent of meeting and for all its service and for the holy garments.

When we have been reconciled to God -- even apart from our salvation-- what is it that is reconciled to God? Are we the prodigal child brought back before God, even while we were yet enemies?

The way I am beginning to see this, (and I am open for correction)  :happygrin: is that there is two parts to our Saviors work. The Blood of the Lamb was shed for all. This means "ALL" in the most literal terms. The Blood was shed once and for all ushering in the New Covenant. The New Covenant is brought about (apart from man) by the Father, Son and Spirit (or Spirit of God if you wish). Man is a partaker of the New Covenant, but does nothing to institute nor ratify it.

So, the first part of Christ work is to reconcile us to God through His blood. However... the flesh is still master over those who do not receive Christ and His "saving" work through the Cross. Unless, as in Romans 6 we are dead, buried and resurrected IN Him, the flesh has not been dealt with. This does not mean we are not reconciled to God, but we have yet (if unsaved) died to the flesh. Salvation, as I am beginning to see it, is not salvation from eternal roasting, but the process of entering into Christ's finished work on our behalf.

Our Lord is separating out a special people to Himself. We are to be His bride, and ministers to the most High God. Just as the Levitical priest were called out from among the people for the honor of ministering to God, so shall we who believe, obey and walk by faith. Those who do not receive God's Word will suffer loss but not eternal torment.

[davidsulem]

Christ's death and atonement was for all mankind. Though we were yet enemies He reconciled us to God. His Blood and death on our behalf is what reconciles us to God. However... unless we go through Roman's 6, meaning enter into His death, burial and resurrection through our believing and faith, we are not in Him, meaning raised up with Him (abide in Me and I abide in you)

Those who do not believe or those who die without receiving Him will enter into the second death. As I am understanding it, since they did not receive Him, although they were reconciled with God already, they are not yet raised up with Him. I believe this is where the Lake of Fire enters in the picture as a purifying agent of God's all consuming love. Am I at least on the right track? We who believe have no part in the second death because we are already raised up with Him?

Hi Texas Son, You got it right. I agree with you. 

Here is the way, I understand the Second Death.

We must all go through two deaths before we can literally enter the Kingdom of God? Everybody knows that sooner or later we come to the end of our earthly lives; this is our natural physical death. However, there is another type of death that the Bible describes as the death of 'the old man', which everyone must experience through God given faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, either in this life for true believers (God's Elect, the Bride of Christ) or in the next life for unbelievers, before they can enter the Kingdom of God.

Romans 6:5-6
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.


Jesus Christ has already paid the price for everybody's salvation but all people have not yet received it. We shall ALL receive the salvation, which Jesus Christ has already earned for us, either in this life or the next, in God's time and in His order.

The Second Death, in the Lake of Fire, awaiting all unbelievers when they face the Great White Throne Judgement is the spiritual death of their 'old man'. All resurrected unbelievers in their immortal yet still unsaved bodies will have to experience the Second Death in God's consuming, refining and merciful Lake of Fire judgement. All unbelievers must die the Second Death in order to be born again with new Life in Christ to enter the Eternal Kingdom of God.

The Second Death in the Lake of Fire is only applicable to unbelievers who will rise in the Second Resurrection. This is because all true believers (God's Elect) who will rise in the First and Second Resurrections, will have already experienced the death of their old man through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.  They will have already believed and accepted during their earthly lives the full work of the cross that their 'old man' and everybody else's 'old man' was crucified and died with Christ.

However, God's standard for entering His Kingdom remains the same, whether in this life or the next, which is repentance and God given faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

[YoungYuni]

Those who do not believe or those who die without receiving Him will enter into the second death. As I am understanding it, since they did not receive Him, although they were reconciled with God already, they are not yet raised up with Him. I believe this is where the Lake of Fire enters in the picture as a purifying agent of God's all consuming love. Am I at least on the right track? We who believe have no part in the second death because we are already raised up with Him?
TS

Hiya,

I agree with you.

I also wonder after reading all these posts on lake of fire, that some here think we all go through it.

I believe Scripture is quite clear, some are already raised up with Him putting off the things that hold them back; while others are not already raised and must have those things burned out.

:icon_joker: :icon_flower:

[alihaymeg]

Very true, but what does it mean to be raised?
Is it simply accepting Christ, or is there more required?

[Texas Son]

Very true, but what does it mean to be raised?
Is it simply accepting Christ, or is there more required?

I believe in truth faith, yes, simply accepting Christ does it. After all, receiving Christ comes with repentance. Though this person will have to go through the fires spoken of in I Corinthians Chapter 3.

LOL, just to start another rabbit trail, does any one really "accept" Christ, or do we "receive" Christ?

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother G... :hithere:

Hi Texas Son and Welcome :icon_flower:

You may find there are a  few different veiws on the LOF, But ultimately its purpose is to give life to all.

For mine, I see it from the moment we ate from the Tree of G and E , we died.,that being the first death , Death of The Body and Soul , , the death of death comes through His life in us as you mentioned in Roman 6, Ultimately all go through the Lake of Fire( Christ), those in Him having experienced It now by being Raised in HIM, have No need to experience this again....

The LOF is very much a NOW experience as well as for those in the future.

Cue WillieH. :icon_flower:

Very good bro!  :laughing7: ...muy bueno!  :first:


PeacE...
...willieH :ty:

[willieH]

willieH: How-D ...dr Z...  :cloud9:

I am interested in how you perceive these verses,  since u believe "all go through LOF/second death"?

Well "zeek", ...Here is a list of those who "traverse" or become "aquainted with" the Lake of FIRE:

(Rev 21:8)  but the FEARFUL, and ...UNBELIEVING... and the ABOMINABLE, and MURDERERS, and WHOREMONGERS, and SORCERERS, and ...IDOLATORS... and ALL LIARS... SHALL have THEIR PART in the LAKE that BURNETH with FIRE, and BRIMSTONE which ...IS... the 2nd Death...  

Notice it says, ..."IS the 2nd death", not "will be"...

We are "dying the 2nd Death" in this life... not in what is to come...

Hmmm...

ever been FEARFUL?  You qualify!
ever NOT BELIEVED?  You qualify!
ever IDOLIZED anyone or anything?  You qualify!
ever LIED?  You qualify!

Usn's don't even have to "murder, whoremonger, sorcify (drugs), or even abominate" ourselves...

There are 4 qualifying parameters that pretty much, qualifies everyone... and even if one is not HONEST... (which is lying - and thereby qualifies one)...

GOD concluded ALL in UNBELIEF... and thereby concluded ALL to the LAKE of FIRE...  (Rom 11:32)  :dontknow:

For UNBELIEVING is a qualifying parameter!   :btantrum:

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

This is saying that ones that BELIEVE are ALIVE in CHRIST and their LIFE is preserved IN HIM who LIVES forever.  

It is not saying that they shall never meet DEATH of any sort, for everyone DIES physically, and ALL have died SPIRITUALLY by SINNING, so the word NEVER cannot be applied...  

"NEVER" means: "NOT at ANY TIME"...  If one NEVER shall DIE, it means this has NOT occured in their experience... which is just NOT so concerning human beings...  

We die in the spirit (1st death) by sinning (see Gen 2 - Adam),  ...and then in the physical (2nd death) (see Gen 5 - Adam)...

Merriam-Webster:

Never

Main Entry: nev·er  
Pronunciation: \ˈne-vər\
Function: adverb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English nǣfre, from ne not + ǣfre ever — more at no
Date: before 12th century
1 : not ever : at no time <I never met her>
2 : not in any degree : not under any condition <never the wiser for his experience>

Scripture says:

...even so in ADAM ...all ...DIE... even so IN CHRIST shall all be made alive (1 Cor 15:22)

...it is appointed for a man ONCE to DIE... then the judgment... (Heb 9:27 )

...the WAGES of SIN is DEATH... for ALL HAVE SINNED... (Rom 3:23)

How can a SINNER, ...not DIE?  :omg:  

God stated to Adam, that if he ate from the tree (sinned by disobeying the command), that IN THE DAY which he ate, He would surely DIE... (Gen 2:17)...

Was GOD kidding?  Of course he was NOT!

Did Adam DIE Physically THAT DAY?  Of course not... He DIED Spiritually!

Did Adam eventually DIE physically?  YES!!!  (Gen 5:5) .... and all the DAYS that Adam lived were 930 years, and he ...DIED...  

GOD is not PARTIAL toward one human or another, for ALL are moving at His hand as He WORKS ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL... (Eph 1:11)

...DUST thou art, and unto DUST shalt thou RETURN... (Gen 3:19) there is DEATH in the dust...

The word "NEVER" in John 11:26 does NOT mean that a believer shall NOT AT ANY TIME, ...DIE... :mnah:

It means that IN BELIEF of CHRIST is LIFE and during the course of that BELIEF,in this lifetime, that one shall NEVER DIE... for CHRIST is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of FAITH...

Anyone or anything preserved IN CHRIST is ETERNALLY preserved... it does not mean that that one has NEVER or will NEVER experience DEATH...  :dontknow:

This must be so, otherwise the Scriptures are crumbled down and compromised left and right concerning this issue...

Adam DID DIE spiritually in the Day he ate as GOD said he would, ...and because of that SPIRITUAL death caused by SIN, ...eventually DIED physically after 930 years of Physical life...

PeacE...
...willieH :ty:

[Zeek]

1Jo 4:17    Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


1Jo 3:2    Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1Jo 3:3    And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.


1Jo 3:5    And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


1Jo 3:6    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 3:3    And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 3:9    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:14    We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.

1Jo 2:23    Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].


 
Jhn 11:26    And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Jo 2:24    Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1Jo 2:25    And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.

1Jo 2:28    And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

second death=ashamed.


1Jo 1:6    If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jo 1:7    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:8    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


1Jo 5:17    All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1Jo 5:18    We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Rev 3:18     I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, (see I Peter 1:7) that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

or else:

Jer 23:40    And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not  be forgotten ((sin unto death imo).

Rom 9:33      As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 

[Tony N]

The question which started this thread is:

The "second death" what exactly is it?

Rev 20:14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death-the lake of fire.

Normally people die a first death. That death is unconscious death.
Why should the second death be any different?

Is the second day any different from the first?
Is the second watch different from the first?
Mar 14:72 "And, straightway, a second time, a cock crows." Was the second crowing any different than the first crowing?

[Zeek]

 1Pe 1:7    That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


It took awhile for Noah to build the ark, before the rain came. (a fiery trial of his faith before the "big fire/flood").

But later when the rain came, he was not ashamed, while the "wicked" world was. 

he that has hope in HIM during the trial of his faith, purifies himself even as he is pure.  Hallelujah.



Gal 4:29    But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

Gal 4:30    Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31    So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

:bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Zeek]

willieH: How-D ...dr Z...  :cloud9:

I am interested in how you perceive these verses,  since u believe "all go through LOF/second death"?

Well "zeek", ...Here is a list of those who "traverse" or become "aquainted with" the Lake of FIRE:

(Rev 21:8)  but the FEARFUL, and ...UNBELIEVING... and the ABOMINABLE, and MURDERERS, and WHOREMONGERS, and SORCERERS, and ...IDOLATORS... and ALL LIARS... SHALL have THEIR PART in the LAKE that BURNETH with FIRE, and BRIMSTONE which ...IS... the 2nd Death...  

Notice it says, ..."IS the 2nd death", not "will be"...

We are "dying the 2nd Death" in this life... not in what is to come...

Hmmm...

ever been FEARFUL?  You qualify!
ever NOT BELIEVED?  You qualify!
ever IDOLIZED anyone or anything?  You qualify!
ever LIED?  You qualify!

Usn's don't even have to "murder, whoremonger, sorcify (drugs), or even abominate" ourselves...

There are 4 qualifying parameters that pretty much, qualifies everyone... and even if one is not HONEST... (which is lying - and thereby qualifies one)...

GOD concluded ALL in UNBELIEF... and thereby concluded ALL to the LAKE of FIRE...  (Rom 11:32)  :dontknow:

For UNBELIEVING is a qualifying parameter!   :btantrum:

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

This is saying that ones that BELIEVE are ALIVE in CHRIST and their LIFE is preserved IN HIM who LIVES forever.  

It is not saying that they shall never meet DEATH of any sort, for everyone DIES physically, and ALL have died SPIRITUALLY by SINNING, so the word NEVER cannot be applied...  

"NEVER" means: "NOT at ANY TIME"...  If one NEVER shall DIE, it means this has NOT occured in their experience... which is just NOT so concerning human beings...  

We die in the spirit (1st death) by sinning (see Gen 2 - Adam),  ...and then in the physical (2nd death) (see Gen 5 - Adam)...

Merriam-Webster:

Never

Main Entry: nev·er  
Pronunciation: \ˈne-vər\
Function: adverb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English nǣfre, from ne not + ǣfre ever — more at no
Date: before 12th century
1 : not ever : at no time <I never met her>
2 : not in any degree : not under any condition <never the wiser for his experience>

Scripture says:

...even so in ADAM ...all ...DIE... even so IN CHRIST shall all be made alive (1 Cor 15:22)

...it is appointed for a man ONCE to DIE... then the judgment... (Heb 9:27 )

...the WAGES of SIN is DEATH... for ALL HAVE SINNED... (Rom 3:23)

How can a SINNER, ...not DIE?  :omg:  

God stated to Adam, that if he ate from the tree (sinned by disobeying the command), that IN THE DAY which he ate, He would surely DIE... (Gen 2:17)...

Was GOD kidding?  Of course he was NOT!

Did Adam DIE Physically THAT DAY?  Of course not... He DIED Spiritually!

Did Adam eventually DIE physically?  YES!!!  (Gen 5:5) .... and all the DAYS that Adam lived were 930 years, and he ...DIED...  

GOD is not PARTIAL toward one human or another, for ALL are moving at His hand as He WORKS ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL... (Eph 1:11)

...DUST thou art, and unto DUST shalt thou RETURN... (Gen 3:19) there is DEATH in the dust...

The word "NEVER" in John 11:26 does NOT mean that a believer shall NOT AT ANY TIME, ...DIE... :mnah:

It means that IN BELIEF of CHRIST is LIFE and during the course of that BELIEF,in this lifetime, that one shall NEVER DIE... for CHRIST is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of FAITH...

Anyone or anything preserved IN CHRIST is ETERNALLY preserved... it does not mean that that one has NEVER or will NEVER experience DEATH...  :dontknow:

This must be so, otherwise the Scriptures are crumbled down and compromised left and right concerning this issue...

Adam DID DIE spiritually in the Day he ate as GOD said he would, ...and because of that SPIRITUAL death caused by SIN, ...eventually DIED physically after 930 years of Physical life...

PeacE...
...willieH :ty:

Willie,

you and i are on different pages when it comes to "physical, bodily" death.  I don't think that physical death has anything to do with second death or "first death" or any scriptures regarding those deaths,

other than physical things reflecting/symbolizing the spiritual. 

[Zeek]

Willie, you say how can a sinner not die??

There is a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death.


what???

how can that be??????

[Taffy]

you and i are on different pages when it comes to "physical, bodily" death.  I don't think that physical death has anything to do with second death or "first death" or any scriptures regarding those deaths,

other than physical things reflecting/symbolizing the spiritual. 

Im struggling a wee bit to put this into words
In that the First Death is Christ ,Tasting Death for ALL men( as all men being DEAD to HIM) , the 2nd Death if you will bearing witness to the First death  is   the Death of death  itself...

:icon_flower:

[Zeek]

1Pe 1:7    That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


It took awhile for Noah to build the ark, before the rain came. (a fiery trial of his faith before the "big fire/flood").

But later when the rain came, he was not ashamed, while the "wicked" world was. 

he that has hope in HIM during the trial of his faith, purifies himself even as he is pure.  Hallelujah.



Gal 4:29    But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

Gal 4:30    Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31    So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

:bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Psa 11:5    The LORD trieth the righteous: (I Peter 1:7) but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psa 11:6    Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone,[/b] and an horrible tempest: [this shall be] the portion of their cup.

Psa 11:7    For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Hope in HIM, purifieth ourselves; even as he is pure.

[70sevens]

I know I would be on different pages too, but my views on the second death.

[Rev 20:6]
Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The meaning of resurrection should come together with the death, and they are one.
Spiritually dead man should die (the second death=lake of fire) on the cross with Jesus
in order to be reborn (the first resurrection) as a new man.

Then, he is blessed and holy man, being the spiritual priest of God and of Christ.
The second death will have no power over him, because he already went through it
during the first resurrection.

Therefore, 'the second death' is the first resurrection,
being the death of our old man on the cross with Christ.
In other words, we have to go through the lake of fire (the second death)
in order to be born again.