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Author Topic: Just the Elect Will be Saved LOL  (Read 1096 times)
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TheDarkShard
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« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2009, 12:32:57 AM »

Quote
Jesus clearly died because God loved the world..

Do you guys not get it. Always quoting that Jesus died because God loved the world. Can you not see this clearly. Apparently, I am missing something.

Yes He died for everybody. But it is a free GIFT. Some do not want to partake of the free gift. If there are those that do not want the free gift, than they do not want it. Yes, He offered it to the whole world. However there are those, in the world, that just do not want it.

Do any of you get this. I am sure you will tell me that I don't get it. However, I did accept the free gift that was offered. I have friends (the world) who have not accepted the free gift (salvation).


Here is the analogy:
I have 50 superbowl tickets (salvation). There are 50 people at this party I am going to attend (the world). I (Jesus) walk in and say "Hey guys, I have 50 tickets (salvation) to the superbowl, one ticket for everyone in the room (the world). 20 (few) of the 50 (the world) come to me (Jesus) and take my free gift of the tickets (salvation). Wouldn't you know it though. There were 30 (many) of the 50 that did not want my free gift. For whatever reason they just did not want a ticket to the superbowl.

I think any 5 year would probably get this. Free will folks. We have free will to choose whether or not we want to go to the superbowl. Period

God Bless
Here is the a counter-analogy:
50 people open their eyes and find themselves in a clearing by a forest.  Snow, trees, earth, and sky spread out as far as they can see, and the sun is high in the sky.  However, in the clearing is a log cabin.  Inside the cabin is a roaring fire surrounded by 50 chairs.

God says to these 50 people, "Everything here is my creation: from the sun to the snow to the cabin to the fire.  I have made you because I wish for you to be with me.  However, you must come inside the cabin before dark.  I shall bring a storm down upon this clearing when the sun sets, and any who are left outside shall be trapped in it."

Time passes, and slowly the sun begins to set.  As the sun hits the horizon, 20 of the people have entered the house.  But 30 have not.  Who knows why these 30 did not enter?  Perhaps they did not believe that a storm was coming.  Perhaps they did not hear God's warning.  Perhaps they thought the sun would never set.  Perhaps they decided they were having more fun in the snow than they would have in the building.  But in the end, it doesn't matter why.  The sun creeps below the horizon, and God shuts the door.

Without warning, icy winds and flying snow cut through the clearing.  The remaining 30 people begin to shiver and shake.  Cold begins to creep into their bodies, hurting them.  Frightened, some of the people rush over to the door and knock.  The door does not open.  As the winds speed up and the temperature drops, more people rush over to the door.  Soon, countless voices are at the door, and they are all crying, pleading, begging.  It hurts, and they are afraid.  They are sorry, now, that they did not go inside.  Worst of all, the storm will go on forever, and these people will be trapped outside for eternity.  Their pain, their suffering, their desperate pleas will never end.

But God does nothing.  He will not open the door.  Does he hear their cries?  Is he hurt by their suffering?  Does he care?  You tell me.

Could you bear to hear these people's cries and do nothing?  Would you be able to find unparalleled joy even while these people begged for your help?  Would you be able to find perfect contentment, knowing that all those people were in pain?

I could not.  It would tear me asunder.  There are not words for how horrible the above situation seems to me.  I would go mad if I was forced to endure it.  I find it incomprehensible that anyone would say that an all good, all loving God would be less moved by these people's plight than I am.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 12:40:31 AM by TheDarkShard » Logged
whyiloveitaly
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« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2009, 04:31:22 AM »

TheDarkShard,
Nice post! (I'd add that God probably not only cares about them even more than we do, but that He's willing to go out and suffer, even till death if necessary, in order to make sure that all the others get inside!)
Unfortunately, not many "believers" have that kind of attitude today! To them, God just doesn't care once the door is shut (ie. the story about the 10 foolish virgins...). And so as a result, they (the "believers") don't care either!

 2c
Brian
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claypot
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« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2009, 10:07:50 PM »

Here is the analogy:
I have 50 superbowl tickets (salvation). There are 50 people at this party I am going to attend (the world). I (Jesus) walk in and say "Hey guys, I have 50 tickets (salvation) to the superbowl, one ticket for everyone in the room (the world). 20 (few) of the 50 (the world) come to me (Jesus) and take my free gift of the tickets (salvation). Wouldn't you know it though. There were 30 (many) of the 50 that did not want my free gift. For whatever reason they just did not want a ticket to the superbowl.


Here is my analogy from the same story........

30 of the 50 did not want the free tickets. Why? Whatever reason. This is where most people lose the whole of God's wisdom, ability, and desire. Whatever reason. Whatever reason.

The point is there is a reason some don't accept. What is the reason? Say the reason is they don't like football. Why don't they like football? Is it a something from the heart or mind? These are the dominions where God works best.

Say God fixes the reasons they don't like football? Then they would accept the tickets all without being forced, all by their own wills.

In other words these people who reject the gift do not have free wills. They have wills being dominated by something that is causing them to not accept the good gift. Get rid of that 'something' and they will accept the gift.

cp
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sparrow
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I watch, & am as a sparrow alone upon the rooftop.


« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2009, 10:23:34 PM »

Do you want to know what drives me crazy about the whole...ET point of view which states "it is a GiFT, but you still have to ACCEPT it!" line?

Ok. So I give you a gift. I put it at your feet. There it is, all wrapped up in a nice bow.
I stand back and smile.  SparkleTooth

Waiting for you to pick it up.

Waiting...

waiting....

waiting...

*ahem*

waiting...

waiting...

waiting...

*uh...ah...aHEM*

waiting..

waiting...

you still have not picked up my gift.
So I pick it up and beat you to death with it.

 icon_flower

Apparently I am much kinder than God.
Because at least you are dead and not suffering for all eternity.  SparkleTooth


It's such madness.

The same people who don't understand that all are being reconciled are the same people who think that THEY had something to do with their salvation. That in itself is taking AWAY from the cross, imo.
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Of endless joy. And everywhere
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whyiloveitaly
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« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2009, 04:57:29 AM »

Hi all,
I came across this yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv9IvCpiHxA&feature=related

-I'd love to hear your comments!

Love to all,
Brian
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rosered
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« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2009, 08:37:39 AM »


 
  Hi Darkshard , Brian and Sparrow  and CP ,
  i was reading these and saw your  vid
  I just wanted to say  the pattern  in  the Bible was always a servant
  than the son
  a servant  feels indebted  to a master 
 and A  son is born in  what His  Father owns ..
 I know that  Jesus said the greatest in the kingdom is the servant of all 

 and He come to serve to the honor of His  Fahter and  to His glory
 
  here are those verses I have got my  reply from ..
 
 Mal 1:6 A son honours [his] father, and a servant his master: if then I [be] a father, where [is] mine honour?

 
 and if I [be] a master, where [is] my fear? says  the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? 

Jhn 8:35 And the servant abides not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abides ever

Gal 4:7 Wherefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 

  I  can see whay folks are in differnt  places in His Word
  making it all work together for the good of those who Love the Lord and are called according to HIS   purpose 

  Heart
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NinjaWizards777
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« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2009, 04:02:31 PM »

Do you want to know what drives me crazy about the whole...ET point of view which states "it is a GiFT, but you still have to ACCEPT it!" line?

Ok. So I give you a gift. I put it at your feet. There it is, all wrapped up in a nice bow.
I stand back and smile.  SparkleTooth

Waiting for you to pick it up.

Waiting...

waiting....

waiting...

*ahem*

waiting...

waiting...

waiting...

*uh...ah...aHEM*

waiting..

waiting...

you still have not picked up my gift.
So I pick it up and beat you to death with it.

 icon_flower

Apparently I am much kinder than God.
Because at least you are dead and not suffering for all eternity.  SparkleTooth


It's such madness.

The same people who don't understand that all are being reconciled are the same people who think that THEY had something to do with their salvation. That in itself is taking AWAY from the cross, imo.

Yeah. I think one of the main things that keeps people locked in the ET thinking is a failure to examine all the things that cause people NOT to be Christians in this life. They unjustly generalize everyone and say "well they just dont want God, theyd rather burn forever than accept perfect love. their choice!". Really, is that all? it couldnt possibly be because they were abused by a priest when they were younger, causing them to distrust religion in general? Or it couldnt be because they havent yet found convincing enough reasons to believe God exists? or it couldnt be because they have a hard time concluding which of thousands of religions is the correct one? it couldnt be anything like that?

Of course it cannot be...thell say. Because to admit that it could be(without bringing up romans 1 at least) would mean theyd actually have to attribute some common sense to the flawed church logic.

its really ridiculous
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Barry DuPont
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« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2009, 09:21:22 AM »

Do you want to know what drives me crazy about the whole...ET point of view which states "it is a GiFT, but you still have to ACCEPT it!" line?

Ok. So I give you a gift. I put it at your feet. There it is, all wrapped up in a nice bow.
I stand back and smile.  SparkleTooth

Waiting for you to pick it up.

Waiting...

waiting....

waiting...

*ahem*

waiting...

waiting...

waiting...

*uh...ah...aHEM*

waiting..

waiting...

you still have not picked up my gift.
So I pick it up and beat you to death with it.

 icon_flower

Apparently I am much kinder than God.
Because at least you are dead and not suffering for all eternity.  SparkleTooth


It's such madness.

The same people who don't understand that all are being reconciled are the same people who think that THEY had something to do with their salvation. That in itself is taking AWAY from the cross, imo.

Yes.
There is a major problem with the whole position of "love me or I will kill you" philosophy.
"I love you but I have a gun to your head in case you don't love me back."

Such is IMO a reflection of our own sentiments imposed on scriptural interpretation. That meaning that it enables us to think highly of ourselves for loving God. Pride got mixed in with love.

JMO Barry
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lomarah
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« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2009, 02:00:13 PM »

Awesome post sparrow! I wanted to jump up and shout HALLELUJAH!!! at the end of it but I figured I better not or my mother in law might think i'm a bit nutters. :D
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