How could this be what God wants?

[NinjaWizards777]

I (ironicly) found this randomly on a blog entitled "jesus loves you". For some reason, it doesnt give the book in which this passage is listed, but I found it disturbing none the less.


58Is there righteousness in your mouths, O you gods? are you upright judges, O you sons of men? 2 The purposes of your hearts are evil; your hands are full of cruel doings on the earth. 3 The evil-doers are strange from the first; from the hour of their birth they go out of the true way, saying false words. 4 Their poison is like the poison of a snake; they are like the adder, whose ears are shut; 5 Who will not be moved by the voice of the wonder-worker, however great are his powers.

6 O God, let their teeth be broken in their mouths; let the great teeth of the young lions be pulled out, O Lord. 7 Let them be turned to liquid like the ever-flowing waters; let them be cut off like the grass by the way. 8 Let them be like an after-birth which is turned to water and comes to an end; like the fruit of a woman who gives birth before her time, let them not see the sun. 9 Before they are conscious of it, let them be cut down like thorns; let a strong wind take them away like waste growth. 10 The upright man will be glad when he sees their punishment; his feet will be washed in the blood of the evil-doer. 11 So that men will say, Truly there is a reward for righteousness; truly there is a God who is judge on the earth.

Sometimes the symbolic and grusome discriptions cause me to wonder if certain passages like this were really "God inspired". Its not punishment that I have a problem with...but "the upright man will be glad when he sees their punishment"? "his feet will be washed in the blood of the evil-doer"?

Sometimes this stuff just sounds satanic. there are other passages I come across like this , as Im sure you have as well

[firstborn888]

Psalm 58:6 is the passage.

No big deal - just think of it like someone you love is being beaten by an evil man and the police shoot him through the head. Happy news. Not the BEST scenario for sure, but happy news none the less.

Much of the bible is just a raw depiction of life in this fallen world, not a depiction of God's heart.

Does that make sense to you?

[jesushandsarekindhands]

God punishes sin, although i dont believe in eternal hell, i dont believe he takes sin lightly at all.

[Gilbert]

God punishes sin, although i dont believe in eternal hell, i dont believe he takes sin lightly at all.

No, it is NOT God who punishes sin.
You are paid wages by the one who 'employs' you.
If you are employed by the powers of sin, you are paid the wages of sin by these same powers.
If you are 'employed' by the Lord, you are 'paid' by the Lord; His rewards are peace, joy and righteousness.

Jesus paid the wages owed; not to God but to the evil one.

The erroneous doctrines of the ET'rs began because they too believed that God punishes sin.
That's what I find so utterly disconcerting in this Forum; so many claiming to have abandoned the doctrines of 'Eternal Torment' but still wishing to hold on to the falsehood that God is 'Tormentor In Chief'.

Oh, and God NEVER puts anyone in Hell ... as the ET'rs are so fond of claiming.
When the evil one is placed in so-called Hell, he is permitted to take his possessions with him; as a matter of fact, some are so entirely attached to the evil one, that they willingly follow the evil one to share in their fate (for a season).
But those who are owned ... those who are the possessions of the Lord ... are never plucked from His hand and share His peace, joy and righteousness forever.

No, God is neither the Punisher nor the Tormentor; God is ONLY and COMPLETELY good! 

[jesushandsarekindhands]

God punishes sin, although i dont believe in eternal hell, i dont believe he takes sin lightly at all.

No, it is NOT God who punishes sin.
You are paid wages by the one who 'employs' you.
If you are employed by the powers of sin, you are paid the wages of sin by these same powers.
If you are 'employed' by the Lord, you are 'paid' by the Lord; His rewards are peace, joy and righteousness.
Another thing:
Are you not OWNED by the Lord?
Are you not His possession?
Yes, of course you are.

Jesus paid the wages owed; but not to God but to the evil one.

The erroneous doctrines of the ET'rs began because they too believed that God punishes sin.
That's what I find so utterly disconcerting in this Forum; so many claiming to have abandoned the doctrines of 'Eternal Torment' but still wishing to hold on to the falsehood that God is 'Tormentor In Chief'.
 

God does punish sin.

The Lord will punish all men for such sins" (1 Thessalonians 4:6).


Although I do see the Lord's punishment for sin as being for our benefit. 
A better word for punishment would probably be 'correction', but never the less, it's still punishment.

[Molly]

God punishes sin, although i dont believe in eternal hell, i dont believe he takes sin lightly at all.

No, it is NOT God who punishes sin.
You are paid wages by the one who 'employs' you.
If you are employed by the powers of sin, you are paid the wages of sin by these same powers.
If you are 'employed' by the Lord, you are 'paid' by the Lord; His rewards are peace, joy and righteousness.

Jesus paid the wages owed; not to God but to the evil one.

The erroneous doctrines of the ET'rs began because they too believed that God punishes sin.
That's what I find so utterly disconcerting in this Forum; so many claiming to have abandoned the doctrines of 'Eternal Torment' but still wishing to hold on to the falsehood that God is 'Tormentor In Chief'.

Oh, and God NEVER puts anyone in Hell ... as the ET'rs are so fond of claiming.
When the evil one is placed in so-called Hell, he is permitted to take his possessions with him; as a matter of fact, some are so entirely attached to the evil one, that they willingly follow the evil one to share in their fate (for a season).
But those who are owned ... those who are the possessions of the Lord ... are never plucked from His hand and share His peace, joy and righteousness forever.

No, God is neither the Punisher nor the Tormentor; God is ONLY and COMPLETELY good! 

wow.  Thank you, Gilbert.  I always wondered why he put it that way--the wages of sin is death, as though we are being paid for a job done for a master. 


Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Gilbert]

God punishes sin, although i dont believe in eternal hell, i dont believe he takes sin lightly at all.

No, it is NOT God who punishes sin.
You are paid wages by the one who 'employs' you.
If you are employed by the powers of sin, you are paid the wages of sin by these same powers.
If you are 'employed' by the Lord, you are 'paid' by the Lord; His rewards are peace, joy and righteousness.

Jesus paid the wages owed; not to God but to the evil one.

The erroneous doctrines of the ET'rs began because they too believed that God punishes sin.
That's what I find so utterly disconcerting in this Forum; so many claiming to have abandoned the doctrines of 'Eternal Torment' but still wishing to hold on to the falsehood that God is 'Tormentor In Chief'.

Oh, and God NEVER puts anyone in Hell ... as the ET'rs are so fond of claiming.
When the evil one is placed in so-called Hell, he is permitted to take his possessions with him; as a matter of fact, some are so entirely attached to the evil one, that they willingly follow the evil one to share in their fate (for a season).
But those who are owned ... those who are the possessions of the Lord ... are never plucked from His hand and share His peace, joy and righteousness forever.

No, God is neither the Punisher nor the Tormentor; God is ONLY and COMPLETELY good! 

wow.  Thank you, Gilbert.  I always wondered why he put it that way--the wages of sin is death, as though we are being paid for a job done for a master. 


Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Thank you for your comment, Molly.

Someone else in here replied to the same Post and is quoted as follows:
"God does punish sin.
'The Lord will punish all men for such sins', (1Thess 4:6).
Although I do see the Lord's punishment for sin as being for our benefit. 
A better word for punishment would probably be 'correction', but never the less, it's still punishment."

I was very impressed with his acute remembering of Scripture; the verse momentarily escaped me while I was making my own comment to the original Poster.
Anyways, I'm sure that the Poster will research the derivative for the word "punish" and reckon with the correct conclusion.
Once a person can faithfully confess that God is only and completely good, their entire Christian experience elevates to a very exciting level. Without a scriptural understanding of who God is and what He is like, there are far too many shadows and murky muddling through things ... so many contrarities that so easily confuse. Furthermore, (according to scripture), if we expect to receive anything from God, we must first believe that He exists ... unfortunately, the schizophrenic god whom many have conceived in their hearts and minds does not exist.

[firstborn888]

You all may have missed the OP's point a bit? He was talking about the grotesque imagery used in the passages quoted whereas you guys are talking about who punishes sin and who the wage is paid to etc.

So, pulling teeth, bathing in an enemies blood, making them as an afterbirth - is this what God wants? Is this the heart of God toward 'lost' people? I think that was NW777's question.

AISI the writer was being happy in that passage because those who were being so cruel were stopped. King David was not even allowed to build the temple of God because he was a "bloody man". Reading those passages as if they were revealing the heart of God is a mistake IMO.   

[Raggedy Anne]

Psalm 58:6 is the passage.

No big deal - just think of it like someone you love is being beaten by an evil man and the police shoot him through the head. Happy news. Not the BEST scenario for sure, but happy news none the less.

Much of the bible is just a raw depiction of life in this fallen world, not a depiction of God's heart.

Does that make sense to you?

Makes sense to me!  Made me laugh out loud     A very sensible answer.  The bible can be very shocking - but so is the real world.

Anne

[NinjaWizards777]

So, pulling teeth, bathing in an enemies blood, making them as an afterbirth - is this what God wants? Is this the heart of God toward 'lost' people? I think that was NW777's question.

AISI the writer was being happy in that passage because those who were being so cruel were stopped. King David was not even allowed to build the temple of God because he was a "bloody man". Reading those passages as if they were revealing the heart of God is a mistake IMO.   

Thanks, that makes more sense now. it was just one of those things that made me churn inside without really thinking things through.

[Redlettervoice]

People keep forgetting that the flesh "wars" the "Spirit" and the "Spirit"
wars the flesh?

...What "if" your Spirit is warring your flesh?

Would you be glad when it whipped it?

Wouldn't you?

Aren't you crossed over to be on the Lord's side?

No flesh is gonna enter the Kingdom of God.

It is "corruptible" ........and MUST put on "Incorruption" which the
Spirit is.

Just whip the hell out of it now.

Use that Holy Ghost God gave you.

[Barry DuPont]

Interesting thread and points IMO.

The ego-driven identity of the old covenant man interpreted correction, and circumstance as punishment. This is the result of sin consience and so a depraved conscience. 

God spoke directly to that identity he spoke to the "idol". [The self made image that types and figures allowed for. But God does not dwell in temples made with hands.] 

One that is perfected in love sees not punishment but still sees consequence.

God addresses the different vantage points.
Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 
Tts 1:11   Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 
Tts 1:12   One of themselves, [even] a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians [are] alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 
Tts 1:13   This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 
Tts 1:14   Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 
Tts 1:15   Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and CONSCIENCE US DEFILED. 
Tts 1:16   They profess that they know God; but in works {ie OLD VERSES NEW} they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. 

Gal 2:16   Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 
Gal 2:17   But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 
Gal 2:18   For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 

Barry