Im leaving for a while, thank you everyone.

[Nancy]

Hi ya,
My husbands best friend is gay and is also a catholic.  He is a bit disillusioned with the catholic church i think because of what the pope has said about homosexuals.

But i digress.  If reading the bible is making you ill, then don't.  Let the spirit guide you, not words or men.  Listen to your inner self, that is where God is.  The kingdom of heaven is within you.

Funnily enough talking about being honest, i love sexual innuendo and jokes but up to now i always took Pauls admonition to stop filthy talk, etc.  If that is a part of who i am why should i try to stop it?  It makes me who i am i feel.  I used to try really hard to not do it and i felt stifled and caged in, always trying to put a lock of my words.  It doesn't work.  Why should God care about a bit of harmless flirting? As long as i treat people with respect!
So i know a bit of what you mean.

Wish you peace in your life.
Godbless
Nancy

[claypot]

Sorry clay, i wont modify my posts anymore, i just didnt want to miss anything out.

Thanks, and please don't leave anything out but just put them in a new post each time as you think of them. Again I ask this respectfully.

Lee, you can click on j's name and send him a personal note, can't you?

cp

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Hi ya,
My husbands best friend is gay and is also a catholic.  He is a bit disillusioned with the catholic church i think because of what the pope has said about homosexuals.

But i digress.  If reading the bible is making you ill, then don't.  Let the spirit guide you, not words or men.  Listen to your inner self, that is where God is.  The kingdom of heaven is within you.

Funnily enough talking about being honest, i love sexual innuendo and jokes but up to now i always took Pauls admonition to stop filthy talk, etc.  If that is a part of who i am why should i try to stop it?  It makes me who i am i feel.  I used to try really hard to not do it and i felt stifled and caged in, always trying to put a lock of my words.  It doesn't work.  Why should God care about a bit of harmless flirting? As long as i treat people with respect!
So i know a bit of what you mean.

Wish you peace in your life.
Godbless
Nancy

Nancy, spank you.  I MEAN 'thank you'.  LOL!

Yes i know what you mean, sometimes i feel like i am to be hung drawn, quartered and urinated on just for being human.
Trying to avoid sin and 'every idle word' can drive you mad, i know that....And it can make living in a sinful world a living hell, because your constantly thinking "STOP IT! STOP SWEARING! STOP WATCHING VIOLENT MOVIES! STOP TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE!" To everyone you meet
Before you know it, noone wants to know you anymore, you cant have a laugh with people...You cant even talk to them because your judging every thing they do.

Thanks Nancy, x

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Sorry clay, i wont modify my posts anymore, i just didnt want to miss anything out.

Thanks, and please don't leave anything out but just put them in a new post each time as you think of them. Again I ask this respectfully.

Lee, you can click on j's name and send him a personal note, can't you?

cp

No probs Claypot x

[Nancy]

Hi ya honey,

very funny!!! LOL
yes it is very burdensome to judge others and yourself all the time. i have been there, bought the T-shirt as they say.
It's funny because when i think of Jesus from the bible i know that i would have flirted with him outrageously as i like Jewish men and i believe He would have been irresistable.
Anyway i don't think sin is what most christians think it is.  From what i've learnt from other religions, especially buddhism, it is not a matter of not doing this or that but of not knowing who you really are.

Godbless
Nancy

[claypot]

Hi ya honey,

very funny!!! LOL
yes it is very burdensome to judge others and yourself all the time. i have been there, bought the T-shirt as they say.
It's funny because when i think of Jesus from the bible i know that i would have flirted with him outrageously as i like Jewish men and i believe He would have been irresistable.
Anyway i don't think sin is what most christians think it is.  From what i've learnt from other religions, especially buddhism, it is not a matter of not doing this or that but of not knowing who you really are.

Godbless
Nancy

Good stuff, Nancy. That helps.

Now, I'm wondering what you look like!!!!! Talk about sinful thoughts!

cp

[Lee Damboise]

Ya , I found out how , thanks

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Hi ya honey,

very funny!!! LOL
yes it is very burdensome to judge others and yourself all the time. i have been there, bought the T-shirt as they say.
It's funny because when i think of Jesus from the bible i know that i would have flirted with him outrageously as i like Jewish men and i believe He would have been irresistable.
Anyway i don't think sin is what most christians think it is.  From what i've learnt from other religions, especially buddhism, it is not a matter of not doing this or that but of not knowing who you really are.

Godbless
Nancy

I think personally, if we see somthing as a sin, then it is a sin for us.  If for example, in complete innocence, i do somthing i thought was right, but it turns out it wasnt...Its not really a sin i dont believe.

Its like the gay thing.  To me, all that matters is loving someone and who i fancy...what hangs or doesnt hang between someones legs isnt really an issue and if i dont fancy a girl why bother?  Why ruin her life and mine by living a big fat lie?  Ive been there and ive done that and i have 2 ex girlfriends who would gladly play soccer with my ripped off head to prove it.

[Lee Damboise]

J , check to find if my personal messages came through, new at this

[Nancy]

I thought you were gay!!!!

Young man!!!!!
Godbless
Nancy

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Everyone im off for the weekend (not leaving for good right now), and will reply to messages (Sparrow) after the weekend.

I cant see myself staying after that, i really have had a 'gutsfull' of religion and dont want to be a hypocrite by staying, because im
 more against religion than for it right now, and i wouldnt be giving of very good 'vibes', which is no good for anyone.

[Lee Damboise]

K, till again, Lee

[Nancy]

hi there claypot,
i thought JHAKH was replying when you said i wonder what you look like! Thats' why i said i thought you were gay LOL.
Godbless
Nancy

[Cardinal]

  Hi, Marc........I hate to see you go.  I understand your frustration with the letter. I was thinking of how I have dealt with it, and I guess the core for me is, I know God is love, I know God is good, and therefore no matter what I THINK it says by looking at the literal, I KNOW the Spirit of the Word is LIFE AND LOVE.

There are many levels of understanding in there that speaks to us on many levels that it then creates in us. I think of it this way. I don't speak to a 40 year old the same way I speak to a 1 year old, and I don't speak the same way to a 5 year old as either of the previous two. I also don't speak to a 15 year old the same way as all the others. He is "daddy" to all these age groups, and He will quicken or make life in you what is needed where you are at, at that moment.

The Word is life to your SPIRIT, and regardless of whether or not you understand a passage with your carnal mind at that moment of reading it, the Word will not return void, it will speak to your spirit man and thru this you are strengthened, even if unaware of it at the time. Maybe you can't see any growth from the time you arrived to now, but I can.

Please don't permanently cut yourself off from fellowship here. We are all in this together, and there really is strength in numbers. You don't know but that what you might say tomorrow, is EXACTLY what someone else needed to hear for Him to add to THEIR stature. We are all of one body, one Spirit and one love; HIS. Everything else is just "details". Blessings to you..... 

[claypot]

hi there claypot,
i thought JHAKH was replying when you said i wonder what you look like! Thats' why i said i thought you were gay LOL.
Godbless
Nancy

I was wondering about that one.

It is good to lighten up once in a while and you seem like a good one to do that very thing.

cp

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Jesushandsarekindhands...

You said you did not mean harm toward anyone by your statement in the OP... And neither do I in this one toward you my friend...

You chose well when you chose a name here... do we "cross" that name out, now? -- Jesushandsarekindhands

Obviously at present, you do not know this ---> but you are walking on a pathway which GOD chose for you to walk, KNOWING your EVERY STEP, prior to each one...    HE placed you here (as did He place us all)...

We are the SONS of GOD, and ALL of us are amidst the unfolding (before the Universe and Heavenly realms), of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, which is HIS KNOWLEDGE...  

HIS KNOWLEDGE is a LIVING KNOWLEDGE -- and WE are amidst LIVING IT...

It does not matter whether or not you or I, ...like it, understand it, or ignore it, NOTHING can change the fact that this is indeed what is taking place:  

We are UPON HIS AGENDA, ...He is not upon ours...

Even though at PRESENT, you are all up in a wrinkle about "GOD" and NONE of it makes ANY SENSE to you --->

ALL of this will come to a COMPLETE CONCLUSION (for everyone, including you)... and when it does (even though it does NOT now) -- it will ALL make PERFECT SENSE to you.

GOD loves you, as well as ALL of His Creation -- because He SAYS He does, and His LOVE is not dependent upon us or our actions, or inactions...

And wherever you go, He shall go BEFORE you, and you shall do your part in this Story of Good and Evil which shall stand FOREVER as a testimony of BOTH.

Just as a -- CAR or a -- SONG or a -- piece of BUBBLEGUM or a -- TELESCOPE --- does not DECIDE its form, position, or time of existence...

Each is brought forth at the descretion of its MAKERS --- the Sons of God... and is only PERTINENT to the AGENDA and LIVES of the Sons of God, as THEY see fit within THAT AGENDA...

So are the SONS of GOD subject to THEIR MAKER upon HIS...

Your heart shall find Peace my eternal brother...  maybe just not in this lifetime (which is a  FAR and "foreign country")... but in your return HOME to YHVH...

As far as the CONFUSIONS that beset you... it is within the HEART that the "decifering of the code" -- takes place, not the mind.   That said, in closing, might I offer this small piece of advice as you continue your journey of life:

Do right unto others as is best within your ability to do so...  



...willieH :

[claypot]

Willie, you did it again.

Well the words are that say 'we' (in Christ) are made perfect through sufferings.

You are a good example to me of that.

cp

[willieH]

Willie, you did it again.

Well the words are that say 'we' (in Christ) are made perfect through sufferings.

You are a good example to me of that.

cp

  CP... You are quite the good example your own self! 

...willieH 

[Seth]

Reasons I'm leaving.

(Warning, the subject matter could be faith destroying for some), and i'm not here to destroy anyone's faith, because I know how much some people 'need it' and at the end of the day if someone finds happiness, then I am glad for that person, because it isn't easy to find on this miserable rock.  So whether a person is atheist, agnostic, Christian, muslim etc etc, I really don't care as long as they're not hurting anyone else.

Soooo....One minute were told that nobody seeks God, the next minute were told that only God can 'draw' someone to him.  Next minute we find God hardening hearts blah blah blah.
To him that doesn't work his faith is counted as righteous, next minute we hear that faith without works is useless, works this, faith that, blah blah blah.

One minute were told.....
........Psalm 146:3

KJV   Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

Next minute were told to put our faith in a man (Jesus).

There are thousands of examples such as this I could give, and it leave one thinking -
"What the hell do i do?"  And it's not a great state for a brain to be in.

It's all getting a bit much for me and I really don't know what to tell people when they ask me a Bible question, because for every question there is a thousand answers (and the debate never ends about what the right answer is).
If that is peoples idea of finding 'all truth', then i don't agree! - I've never met two Christians who agree yet! 
So much for the spirit leading the believers to 'all truth'!??!
The only truth i am finding is that the Bible is a big contradiction for start to finish if I am completely honest, and most Christians are hypocrites, self assured, and quite happy in 'their' opinions and personal beliefs upon what the Bible says.

I keep hearing halfbaked answers about God not meaning it when he ordered people to stone others to death, or slay someone for working a sabbath, or when he ordered the killing of men women and children (and animals) and told his men - "Keep the spoils!"
These were clear statements, and if an ET'er says that the part in Timothy about Jesus being the Saviour of all doesn't mean what it says and that we are viewing it wrongly, the Universalist is quick to say "IT SAYS WHAT IT SAYS! ITS RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES!".
Yet when God says STONE THEM!!!  Suddenly God didn't mean that after all....I find it all very two-faced.

So, im sick and tired of making excuses for a book which has been mistranslated and changed so many times, as Pat Condell stated 'No longer bears any resemblance to what was originally written'.

Im also angry that God didn't preserve his book better but let the most important parts of it be mistranslated. Imagine all the misery the preaching of hell has caused, imagine all those in torment, think of all the young gays that shot themselves because they thought God hated them because homosexual was 'added' to the Bible in 1950, and who can blame the people for adding the word since Paul talks about their 'evil lusts' and 'men changing their natural love for a woman and lusting for men'.  No wonder people thought that God hated gays, which when you view the Bible, it seems pretty clear that he does!

Well its not that simple. 
My natural lust is for a man, as are many other humans out there.  The thought of sleeping with a woman for me is unthinkable! 
Some of these gays proved it by blowing their brains out because they thought God hated them.
Do i agree with myself, nature (gay animals, just ask your dog) and the testimony of blood soaked Christian (and non Christian) corpses, or with a 6000 year old book riddled with contradictions, or do i agree with myself or with Paul? - The one who wouldn't let women speak in church (remember, the Bible says what it says, you can't pick and chose!  It's right before you eyes!  Stop making excuses for the parts you aggree with and the parts you don't agree with!...That's hypocricy surely).

I have really tried to get near God through the Bible, but in all honesty it's been one contradiction after another and i'm fed up of it now, fed up of being mixed up, confused, and i really cant take it anymore.
The Bible God didnt make it easy to find him did he.  So much for wanting people to come to him...It would be easier for me to call the Queen or the President and have lunch on their yacht later than to get near to God through such a contradictory mass.

So im going to leave for a while.

If I don't come back i just want to thank everyone on the forums, and a 'special' thanks to a few people (you know who you are).  Who have been a great help to me.

I really wanted to turn from sin and do good works for the rest of my miserable existence, but sadly, due to all the contradictions and errors i really have no faith left and am returning to my 'life of sin' where things at least made a little sense and I managed (although with great difficulty) to salvage some happiness from my miserable and pointless existence.

If i upset anyone on the boards, or was a pain, i am truly sorry, and although I'm not a Christian and certainly not perfect, I do care for others and hope that you all find what you's are looking for.

Do i still believe in God?  Yes, but not the Christian God.  I like everyone else it seems, have my own personal views about God.  He has helped me out before many times in my life through all kinds of miraculous ways.  That was why I came here, thats why I turned to the Bible to try to find him.
All i found was doubts, mistranslations, contradictions and error....Surely not the God of 'NO confusion' the Bible speaks of?
"God is not a God of confusion"...Oh really?  Eh, have you read your book lately?

Anyway I'm off, I wanted to give my reasons for leaving because i know a few of you on here now quite well and didn't want to run off without an explanation.

Who knows, maybe we will meet again?  Maybe our maggot ridden, festered corpses do rise again, maybe the poor disabled, starving, blind begger who had no chance in this life gets a chance in the second life.

I hope so.

Goodbye.

God bless you bro. Thank you for your honesty. I wish you the very best and my door is alway open. Send me an email some time and let me know how you are doing. 

[CHB]

Hi JHKH,

I think willieH pretty much said it all, he is really good at that though. Willie I mean that as a compliment.

The Bible God didnt make it easy to find him did he.  So much for wanting people to come to him...It would be easier for me to call the Queen or the President and have lunch on their yacht later than to get near to God through such a contradictory mass.

If God had planned it so that there were no mistakes in the Bible and made it easy for us to come to him we wouldn't have needed Jesus and we would be without an excuse as to our righteousness.
We would all brag that we know everything and there would be no need for us to communicate nor have this forum, we would all know the same thing. I think God fixed it so we wouldn't know it all for a purpose.

JHKH, I pray you find the peace you are searching for. As willie pointed out, you are where you are because that is where God wants you to be.

Sorry I didn't get to know you better.

CHB
 

[Syndicated]

If God created EVERYTHING, doesn't that mean He created homosexuality too?

 

[NinjaWizards777]

jhkh, If I were to give some advice it would probably be what you are already doing, and that is, to not force yourself to believe anything or be anywhere that you cannot honestly endorse(though maybe you would like to)

I went through a period last winter (around the time of hearing about universalism) where I was just sortof fed up with it all too; peoples endless and conflicting views of the bible, trying to figure out things about a God whos invisable, trying to just figure out what is TRUE. It came to a point where I woke up many days just wondering if God even existed at all...and I was just pretty much done with wresteling so much with the questions.

but just when I lost all hope...God touched me in a way that I cant explain and led me to where I am today. I cant say that I dont still have questions, I think I always will. But with everything I believe I just start at point zero...which is the honest fact that anything I believe COULD be wrong..and thats okay. God may not exist, or universalism may not be true, but so far thats where the evidence and my heart has led me and Im just starting to be okay with that.

its a weird road...stay strong

[IceMan84]

Jesushandsarekindhands....I believe that the most important thing for us to do is to listen to the Holy Spirit and what it leads us to. Don't get too bogged down in the words of men, even man's interpration of the bible (which is God's word but was interpreted through and written by men). Listen to what you feel is right rather than what other people tell you is right. Have faith that God will ultimately lead you to the truth. All the best my friend.

[Cardinal]

  You know Marc, you've only been here a little over a month, and you've already got two pages of people wishing you well, hoping you'll come back here. Seems to me you've already found a treasure trove of His unconditional love amongst the brethren here.   I'm just saying.....  so what are you searching for, again?

[peacemaker]

"Things are not always, as they appear."