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Author Topic: Luke 19:27 - need interpretation  (Read 167 times)
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IceMan84
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« on: November 06, 2009, 08:06:30 PM »

I know this verse is part of a parable, but can someone explain to me exactly what it means. Here is the verse from the NIV:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."

I have read online where people are saying this is Jesus talking about Hell.
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2009, 09:01:59 PM »

Icemen,
I don't know the answer but it would mean annihilation. Because in main stream ET the people suffer forever they can
't be dead. So even for them the verse has to mean something else.
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  .... God our Saviour;  Who will have all men to be saved....
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ....
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2009, 09:28:54 PM »

Whitewings, what you are saying makes sense but I was just wondering how it is interpreted in terms of Universal Reconciliation. By the way, I just searched for it online again, and here is how someone summarized it:

This parable is interpreted like this:
The people that use God's talents wisely will receive more.
The people that do nothing with God's talents will have what they have taken away from them.
The person that does not obey God at all will see death or eternal separation from God... AKA Hell.


Now, obviously this person is just adding stuff that isn't there by saying it equates to "eternal separation". Anyway, I wasn't even familiar with this verse until I stumbled across it today, so I was just wondering if anyone had any insight. Thanks for your response!
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 11:13:05 PM »

 cloud9 Talents = anointing to do the task called for.......what He calls us to do, He also equips us for........My  2c Blessings....
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 03:58:16 AM »

I don't undertand that Cardinal

The people that do nothing with God's talents will have what they have taken away from them.
The person that does not obey God at all will see death or eternal separation from God... AKA Hell.

They got talents. So God equiped them for a task in your words. Then it seems God did a bad job at equiping them because only the first group succeeded. => The people that use God's talents wisely will receive more.
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  .... God our Saviour;  Who will have all men to be saved....
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ....
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 04:00:53 AM »

Whitewings, what you are saying makes sense but I was just wondering how it is interpreted in terms of Universal Reconciliation.
Hi, I'm hoping to learn that too. As I wrote I don't see it referring to hell but beyond that I don't understand.
Note: Here I look at hell as the ET type of hell.
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1 Timothy 2:3-4  .... God our Saviour;  Who will have all men to be saved....
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ....
sheila
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 08:11:51 AM »

  Hi Iceman;

   Jesus Christ is totally victorious, so all enemies will be

  vanquished[fall][the last enemy being death].

   I see this related to "he who doesn't gather with me,scatters"

    Also defining this 'enemy' of Christ's KINGSHIP is important.

    evidently the 'prince of this world' was judged..he had

    objections to Christ's rulership..yet at the same time, some

men are enemies of the cross, but beloved of God.So these

  enemies are not a 'man' per say[but are men being used

 as 'pawns' by the true enemy]

   Galations 4;16  Have I now become your enemy by telling you

the truth?  Those people are zealous to win you over,but for no

good.What they want is to alienate you from us,so that you

may be zealous for them.

   Everyone receives at least 'one talent'. The fearful go and

hide it in the ground...they don't 'increase' the interest of the

 Father out of fear[fear of God  is the beginning of

wisdom,perfection cast fear aside].

  In what way could this bear on Universal salvation?

  I beleive Christ's sacrifice has increased in some to encompass

 the salvation of all mankind. Enlarging LOVE in their hearts.

  while the fearful have not increased  the Master's Kingdom,

    Have no fear 'little flock' I have overcome the world.

  so eventually those that received the 'one talent' the fear of

God..and didn't 'increase' in love for God or mankind ,by Christ's

sacrifice to 2 talents,  will have their one talent removed[Old

Law covenant/fear/judgement] and suffer loss.

  so...OLD LAW COVENANT= 1 talent...old law covenant fulfilled

 by Christ=2 talents[the jews that accept salvation]

   2 talents increasing to four = gentiles saved that accept Christ

   add one talent to four=former enemies of cross being accepted back in = 5 talents

  five talents increased to 10 talents = salvation of the whole

 world in Christ.

  note the guy that had the 'one talent' Old Law Cov.ministry of

death..was fearful..and also  accused God of being a 'hard' man


      Sheila
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 09:17:17 AM »

e-Sword notes

Luk 19:27 However, these, my enemies, who are not willing for me to reign over them-lead them here and slay them in front of me.'"CLV

Luk 19:26-27 
For I say ... - These are the words of the "nobleman" declaring the principles on which he would distribute the rewards of his kingdom.
But those mine enemies - By the punishment of those who would not that he should reign over them is denoted the ruin that was to come upon the Jewish nation for rejecting the Messiah, and also upon all sinners for not receiving him as their king. See the notes at the parable of the talents in Matt. 25.

If I add my comment, it would be lacking
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 10:17:53 AM »

  Hi Iceman;

   Jesus Christ is totally victorious, so all enemies will be

  vanquished[fall][the last enemy being death].

   I see this related to "he who doesn't gather with me,scatters"

    Also defining this 'enemy' of Christ's KINGSHIP is important.

    evidently the 'prince of this world' was judged..he had

    objections to Christ's rulership..yet at the same time, some

men are enemies of the cross, but beloved of God.So these

  enemies are not a 'man' per say[but are men being used

 as 'pawns' by the true enemy]

   Galations 4;16  Have I now become your enemy by telling you

the truth?  Those people are zealous to win you over,but for no

good.What they want is to alienate you from us,so that you

may be zealous for them.

   Everyone receives at least 'one talent'. The fearful go and

hide it in the ground...they don't 'increase' the interest of the

 Father out of fear[fear of God  is the beginning of

wisdom,perfection cast fear aside].

  In what way could this bear on Universal salvation?

  I beleive Christ's sacrifice has increased in some to encompass

 the salvation of all mankind. Enlarging LOVE in their hearts.

  while the fearful have not increased  the Master's Kingdom,

    Have no fear 'little flock' I have overcome the world.

  so eventually those that received the 'one talent' the fear of

God..and didn't 'increase' in love for God or mankind ,by Christ's

sacrifice to 2 talents,  will have their one talent removed[Old

Law covenant/fear/judgement] and suffer loss.

  so...OLD LAW COVENANT= 1 talent...old law covenant fulfilled

 by Christ=2 talents[the jews that accept salvation]

   2 talents increasing to four = gentiles saved that accept Christ

   add one talent to four=former enemies of cross being accepted back in = 5 talents

  five talents increased to 10 talents = salvation of the whole

 world in Christ.

  note the guy that had the 'one talent' Old Law Cov.ministry of

death..was fearful..and also  accused God of being a 'hard' man


      Sheila

 cloud9 thumbsup
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 11:39:06 AM »

Rev 22;3 No longer will there be ANY CURSE.

  there is a cutoff of ANY CURSE that may have been  in effect.

  The parable of Lazurus show a man under the 'curse' of Hades and in torment. The great fixed 'chasm' has been CROSSed..the Spirit and  the bride..the shepherdess of GOATS says 'COME, take life's water free'.

  there is an appointed time where some are 'cut off' for a season..they are blinded until the fullness of the gentiles come in,Paul spoke of that.But,because of the Patriarchs they are beloved.

   they found themselves an enemy of God for a season, but the same reconciliation applies to them,as for us.For God BOUND all men unto disobediance..in order to show MERCY UNTO ALL.

  Now, in the parable of Lazarus the standing Law covenant was a fixed 'chasm'. But mercy triumphs over JUDGEMENT.

  How have we been 'bound' in disobediance? Through the sin in our flesh. How are we saved and set free? By the Grace and mercy of God in His son Jesus Christ

   John 5;28 Do not be amazed at this,for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice,and come out-those who have done good will rise to live,and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned...

   those that rise to be condemned will also have mercy to triumph over their judgement.They will gladly bow and confess Jesus Christ. They who hoped to prove themselves righteous will
have things declared to them that they knew not.For with what judgement we judge,we shall be judged.And when Father shows them that they are a condemned sinner by the law..they will happily accept a perfect atonement Lamb...and embrace a free gift offered to them, as the fulfillment of the Law AND THE GRACE OF GOD.

  and what is the receiving of them back in..but LIFE FROM THE DEAD
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IceMan84
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2009, 12:00:14 PM »

Hey guys, I've been studying this parable some more, and here is my basic take on it (along with some help from the "JesusWalks Bible Study Series"). As you probably are aware, this is the parable of the pounds, which is very similar to the parable of the talents in Matthew. The parable goes like this:

[11] While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. [12] He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. [13] So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. 'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'

[14] "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

[15] "He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

[16] "The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'

[17] " 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'

[18] "The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'

[19] "His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'

[20] "Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. [21] I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'

[22] "His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? [23] Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'

[24] "Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'

[25] " 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'

[26] "He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. [27] But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.' "

Now, here is some commentary from the JesusWalks website:

"The Parable of the Pounds, as it is often called, speaks to us disciples about our productivity as well as other important lessons. Let's look deeply into the parable and see what God will say to us through it. Jesus is in Jericho, about 17 miles east of Jerusalem, on his way to his destiny, his "hour" in Jerusalem. He has just brought salvation to Zacchaeus the tax collector. There is wide speculation that the Kingdom is about to "appear," Greek anaphaino, "cause to light up, cause to appear,"[1] and will take place when he comes to Jerusalem. One reason Jesus tells this parable is to explain that the coming of the Kingdom will be delayed.

Jesus is telling this as a "story," a parable. But his hearers in Jericho would have immediately brought to mind the story of one of Herod the Great's sons, Archelaus (mentioned once in the Bible in Matthew 2:22).[2] The word "noble birth" is Greek eugenes, "pertaining to being of high status, 'well-born, high-born,' "[3] and "to have himself appointed" is the common Greek word lambano, "receive," here having the meaning "take into one's possession, take, acquire." Archelaus went to Rome to receive his appointment as king over the opposition of his subjects who had also appealed to Rome. [4]

Jesus probably intended this reference to receiving a kingdom as an allegory. Of course, Jesus can't be accused of evil character, nor can the allegory be pressed too closely. He is about to finish his ministry at Jerusalem, which means his death and leaving this earth. Jesus seems to intend us to see these points of comparison:
1. He promises to return, now with full recognition of his status as King, to reign in the Kingdom of God.
2. The reference to "a distant country" means that he cannot be expected to return very soon.
3. Jesus is hated by the leaders of Jerusalem -- not because he is an evil ruler, but because as Messiah he threatens their power and righteousness."
   
So basically what I believe Jesus is talking about here is that all people have various gifts from God that we should be using to bring glory to Him and to show and demonstrate His love to others. This could be a wide range of things, from helping the poor, telling others about Jesus, prison ministries, feeding the homeless or just showing love to other people the way that God intended so that they may see the fruits of the Spirit in us. So we know that the first two servants will be a part of the Kingdom of God but it isn't entirely clear what will happen to the third servant. However, if you look at the parable of the talents in Matthew, it appears that this servant would be left outside of the Kingdom.

28 Therefore take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten. 29 For the one who has will be given more, and he will have more than enough. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30 And throw that worthless slave into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth'"

So I think the third servant refers to someone who knows Jesus is God but does nothing to serve Him and is basically just lazy and makes excuses. However, I think it is worth noting that people in this parable as well as the people in Jesus' day didn't really have an excuse for not knowing Jesus was the Son of God. They saw Jesus directly and spoke to Him one-on-one and were given specific instructions from Him. I tend to believe in today's age that God has more leniency on people who were brought up in other religions or just weren't sure whether or not the story of Jesus was true. Anyway, I believe the Kingdom referred to here is likely the Millennial Kingdom of Christ, which would make sense because it talks about the Kingdom being set up after the King's return (which would be Christ's second return to Earth). So then you have to address the other group of people, which is where verse 27 comes into play…"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Now at this time Jesus' enemies include the Pharisees, the scribes, the chief priest's family, and members of the Sanhedrin. This parable takes place towards the end of Jesus' life, and each of these groups was trying to have Him killed. According to JesusWalk, "the listeners in Jericho recalled how King Archelaus slaughtered his enemies, and recognized how the parable was true to life." Therefore, my take on this verse is this: Jesus included this verse in the parable because it was something that the listeners in Jericho were familiar with from the story of King Archelaus. In the parable of the talents from Matthew, this last verse is left out. So basically what Jesus is saying is that the Pharisees and the Jews who follow the ancient law rather accepting Him as Savior will have the Kingdom of God taken away from them, and they will be forced to suffer death and purification through the Lake of Fire before they can enter back into God's Kingdom. Now to take a quote from Tentmaker's FAQ page:

"Here He is talking about being saved during this dispensation to occupy a rulership role in His love-kingdom—to act as co-laborers, co-restorers with Him in His world-harvest field (John 4:34-38). Only those who enter the narrow gate of self-denial, allowing Christ to perfect them in love and holiness can qualify to minister to the world in this era as well as the Kingdom Millennial Age to come. These will shine as lights set on a hill (Matt. 5:14; Ps. 48). They will serve as kings and priests—a holy nation, a royal priesthood—to reflect God's character to the world (1 Pet. 2:9-12). Many are called to this high privilege, but few respond. Such as refuse will find themselves in a place of outer darkness—not "forever," but for a season (Matt. 25:14-30). This describes exactly what happened to many Jews when Jerusalem was crushed under Rome's armies in 70 AD—which Christ prophesied in Matthew 24 and 25."

In the end, I believe God will restore all people to Himself in His own time. Although some may enter through the narrow gate and some may enter through the wide gate, both gates ultimately lead to the same place. I know many people don't believe this but everyone always says to follow your heart and where you feel the Holy Spirit is leading you, rather than simply following the words of other men. When I do this, I feel that Universal Restoration is the truth.
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peacemaker
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2009, 09:55:26 PM »

It may be a reference to the destruction of Jerusalem?
How shall we who died to sin, still live in it?

Jesus says, "Today, deliverance is come to this house."
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